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Post by greenergrass on Mar 24, 2017 23:28:43 GMT
To me, it seems that this average number for revenue, $15K, is very high. With both of my locations, I am way below this. But my rent is also much lower thankfully.
It is important to understand the market. If there is any chance that a Planet (or any other $10-20 gym) will move in nearby, don't take a chance on it. There is really no good plan to beat the bigger gyms whether they are cheap, or pricey with lots of amenities.
I agree with everything that the others are saying.
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Post by cheryl on Mar 26, 2017 18:16:34 GMT
Norma, snap should be providing you with the most recent number of clubs open in the US. How many are they saying there are? Also, ask them how many are currently under corporate management or up for sale. If they're not willing to provide that information it's not a good thing.
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FirecrackerGirlGuest
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Post by FirecrackerGirlGuest on Mar 27, 2017 20:36:57 GMT
Make some ACTUAL money by becoming a manager or consultant manager to the club instead.
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Post by Dale on Mar 27, 2017 22:08:04 GMT
Norma feel free to give us all an update on your thought process after reading these posts.
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Post by John Voskamp on Mar 27, 2017 22:40:47 GMT
Hello Norma,here is what i can tell you, i have been with this company 8 year and in the industry 25 years. In all franchise systems you will have a group of owners that bought into a franchise system and hate everything about it. This is the case at Anytime, it was the case at Golds and is the case in all franchise systems. The better question for the owners responding is have you been to the annual convention every year, so you know everything about the brand and the direction it is headed? when was the last time they attended Snap University, or a Roadshow in their market? How about, have you modernized your club, are you running the current play... most of the owners that are on this blog are not doing any of it. If what you are looking for is honest feedback, the best way to get it is from engaged owners that actually run our play. I can connect you with great owners from all over the country that love the brand, love the support and training's they get and to no surprise they are winning and doing a great job. Norma, I am always available to answer questions for as is my entire team. We don't have a franchisee in the system that cant reach me or their Brand Performance Specialist. These guys are all industry experts ready to assist you. In fact, most of them have been in the industry longer than Snap has been a brand. They coach you, mentor you and hold your hand every step of the way to ensure your success. Norma a couple other facts for you that will help you. Over the past 12-18 months we transitioned about 120 of these owners out of our system and brought in new engaged owners, that want to run the current playbook. These clubs are up on average about 15-30% over the previous owner. the process is working we have about 100 more we will transition out this year. We are very excited to see where the brand is going and we would love to have you part of it. Please let me know if you need anything else.
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Wish I Was Independent
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Post by Wish I Was Independent on Mar 28, 2017 13:37:23 GMT
Hey Norma...check this out:
Mr. Voskamp please explain the following to this prospective franchisee (and all of the other one's that peruse this forum)the following:
Why your leadership group chose to NOT implement the Credit Account Updater for the last 2 plus years (Norma...this is a system that will dramatically reduce the number of declined credit/debit cards each month putting money directly into our pockets) BUT INSTEAD you spent time and resources to develop a Decline program that actually charges us $ for each and every decline.
And you wonder why we don't want "run your play"?? Norma this is just one of many many issues with this franchisor.
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Post by cheryl on Mar 28, 2017 15:38:04 GMT
Hi Norma,
Here are some questions which require cold hard facts, not just pointing fingers.
1. How many Snap locations were open in 2009 in the US?
2. How many Anytime locations were open in 2009 in the US?
3. How many Snap locations are open in the US today?
3. How many Anytime locations are open in the US today?
4. How much did the average Snap Franchisee pay Snap HQ in dues in 2009?
5. How much does the average Snap Franchisee pay Snap HQ today?
Conventions -
I used to go every year. However, what these have become are nothing more that a way for corporate to try to sell you on something. A good example is their TrueStar supplements. This turned out to be a multi-level marketing scheme (read: a pyramid scheme) where Snap's Corporate group was at the top and making a hard sell for franchisees to "run their play" (read: give them pay). It was a mass failure for multiple reasons. The person responding above, Mr. Voskamp, got up on stage, along with multiple other Snap execs, and sold a bill of goods to attendees.
At another convention, the CEO, Mr. Tauton, got up and basically accused a bunch of Snap of being successful only because they were in a location that didn't have competition. However, now they were going to be sending out surveys to members to "expose" those that were successful, but not providing great service. Funny, never heard how that turned out. Almost all of the surveys I've see on our club come back with 5/5 stars. Oh, and the franchisees has to pay a new fee for those surveys to be sent out.
I find it interesting that what Mr. Voskamp is trying to tout as an accomplishment is a dismal failure. Snap disappointed those who put in their hard earned money and many came out with a loss. Now they're trying to get "new" people in who will drink the kool aid for a year or two until they're disillusioned and lose faith with snap. The numbers Mr Voskamp has provided point to about half of the snap owners bailing on snap.
When we first started we bought almost everything snap was pushing. We trusted them to be looking out for our best interests and invested in what they were recommending. What we found is that in almost every case they had no clue about how to support what it was they were selling. The support for the products is the worst in almost any industry out there. Here's a question to ask?
1. Mr. Voskamp what are the support hours for the products you force your franchisees to pay for? As an example, lets use Fitware.
2. Mr. Voskamp what sorpof support do competing products offer? As an example, let's use Fitware
I doubt he'll answer, so I can tell you that if you have a problem on the weekend you'll have to wait until (maybe) Monday. In actuality it probably won't be until about Wednesday, because they have a 72 hour response window. Trying to sign someone up on Saturday and run into a problem, well they'll get back to you as early as Monday, and most likely Wednesday.
Now, as far as the roadshows Mr. Voskamp has mentioned. We were debating on going. However, no one will provide us with any sort of itinerary. Instead we're told that we "should just attend, because "it's going to knock our socks off". My gut feeling is that it's simply a dog and pony show to try to convince members to buy new crap which snap doesn't understand, but wants you to buy because they get a cut of everything sold.
For ourselves, we go out and find new things which will improve our member experience. We used to think we could shortcut this by just buying what snap recommends. We thought snap tested things out to ensure they would help our club. After 3 years we determined that the only reason snap sells anything of develops a partnership with anyone is because they get a cut. If a company advertised a magic pill for $100 and gave snap a $10 cut of that magic pill you'd see snap pushing franchisees to run snap's play, buy the magic pills and get them into the hands of your members. When customers start complaining that the magic pill doesn't work and you call snap to provide more details you'll run into a brand performance specialist telling you "they don't know", you'll have to get in contact with the magic pill team. Meanwhile, those that questioned the magic pill and has reservations about it are pointed out as bad actors. Those that bought the magic pill strategy snap was selling eventually wind up on forums (It's not a blog - why can't snap hq get that straight?) like this, with snap hq trying to shut it down.
Another question:
Why are Snap's internal forums (why not call those blogs as well?) censored. If everyone was as engaged as Mr. Voskamp states wouldn't they be touting what's working for them?
When Snap was touting easyfit and convincing franchisees to purchase them by the boxloads then why did snap hq email members undercutting what the franchisee was selling the easyfit device for? The excuse they gave us was that they only did it for 3 months. Uh, yeah, but that was during our peak months.
The last item I'll leave you with is Fitpass, which used to be called a 30 day trial. There's enough on this forum to read through on just how bad that program is.
Snap's strategy closely resembles what someone posted about South Park and the Underwear Gnomes
Step One: Collect underwear
Step Three: Profits
Snap's latest strategy
Step One: Do a face lift (they call it modernize) for $30K to $70K
Step Three: profit
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Post by greenergrass on Mar 29, 2017 12:57:46 GMT
I am actually offended that JV admits they are transitioning OUT another 100 owners. These owners have been struggling after spending $200-300K on each location. They have put their time into running/operating their territories with little or no ROI. I am probably one of those 100 they would like to see leave this franchise even though I typically get 5/5 from my members on those surveys. That doesn't matter to corporate. What matters is whether you complain, or whether you regularly drink their koolaid. But seriously, they do not have a good answer for competing in the $10 gym market.
I have seen new owners come into our market who bought multiple locations. And they have closed at least one location and are trying to sell others. They drank the koolaid but must realize by now that there is no good answer from corporate on how to make Snap work in certain markets.
There are other locations in our market that have just closed with no new owner stepping in.
As for me, I went to conventions. I drank the koolaid for awhile, and spent a ton more money, reinvesting in the clubs we own. We bought into easyfit and Truestar and more. We have a nice variety of Corporate approved equipment in each club. We spent/spend significant $$ following corporate's plan. But there is no more money to spend. We didn't gain anything in our competitive markets even though the members we still have love our clubs. And now corporate would have me leave and bring in somebody new with cash to spend after buying my location for maybe $10K? UNDERSTAND the corporate play now? This is it. And JV has as much admitted above that this is what they are doing. And he seems quite happy about playing these games with owners and their money.
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Post by determined1 on Mar 29, 2017 13:44:35 GMT
What appears obvious is that corporate's plan is to swindle everything they can out of an owner, get a new owner in there for as cheap as possible, swindle the new owner out of everything they can, and repeat the cycle until there are no suckers left.
As far as franchisee dues are concerned - over a 5 year period our dues went from $1105/month to $1925/month. I'm pulling out things like nighthawk security which was moved into monthly dues. I don't think inflation has moved anywhere near that amount.
This doesn't include about $800 to $1000 we pay per month in processing fees. Again this is an area in which we have no choice. Talking to banks like Chase and Wells Fargo we could easily reduce those charges to $300 to $500 per month if we could swap out the awful processor we have.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that if you are profitable, but not spending a crap load of $$ with snap (buying into their scams) then they will do everything they can to be a pain in your side, sick their lawyers on you (for any little thing) and try to force you to sell. We stopped bringing up any suggestions for improvement because every time we did the response was "We can help you find a buyer for your club". I'd suggest taking a look at a couple of JV's (otherwise known as fat, stupid fuck's) original posts on this forum to get a good idea of the corporate culture at snap and how they view their franchisees.
We used to go to the conventions as well. What we could never seem to find were any of those owners who liked the 30 day trial, or as I've had people refer to them, the 30 day membership. The only benefit of the conventions was finding out how different owners got around stupid stuff forced upon them by snap. The overall theme from corporate at the conventions is shut up, buy the things we tell you to buy and shut the fuck up!!
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Post by Amy on Mar 29, 2017 14:26:38 GMT
Don't forget the bill of goods Peter and his cronies sold all of these "problem" zee's. They were told you could be profitable being completely absent and only staffing the gyms about 20 hours/week. Now they are working to get rid of these club owners, blaming them for their failures and bring in fresh $$$.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Mar 29, 2017 21:09:51 GMT
I think Norma bolted.
John, The 120 owners that you transitioned all were bad seeds? Maybe they just wanted to do something different and had enough of Snap.
The issue here is disconnect between corp and the zees. It's communication John. Years ago, I thought the customer service was better than now for I could pick up the phone, call and a program manager would answer. Now it's submit your question and in 3 to 7 days we will get back to you. Sometimes I forget what question I sent and had to be reminded. Makes me feel truly isolated and disconnected from the corp office. How about try to connect with people more and answer their questions and concerns especially the uncensored ones on this site. What have you got to lose? Our member list on this site is only growing. Honestly, I have no reason not to trust what people are saying on this site. I come here for more truthful information than the snap forum.
Oh...and for pete's sake...stop sugar coating everything like you corp people don't make mistakes. Speak the truth and be down-to-earth with us we can take it...jc
Also, can we see the list of those 100 to be transitioned out this year to see if I'm on it? Thanks!
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Post by swtexan on Mar 31, 2017 19:36:18 GMT
Norma, I've kept up with this thread since you posted, so I thought I would give you my two cents. 1. How long have you owned your club(s) and are your profitable? I purchased in roughly three years ago and my location has been bought/sold a few times before I purchased. Luckily, I am profitable. But, let me clarify- I am a degreed personal trainer who brought a substantial PT business into the new location. Without that, it would have taken a bit longer to become profitable.2. Has your club had consistent membership numbers? My location's membership numbers were severely over reported by the previous owner. Fitware had just come online and they had people labelled as active members who were not paying dues- this was mainly insurance members who they didn't cull from the active list who simply stopped coming to the club. Since I've cleaned that up, my membership numbers are steadily increasing.3. Would you recommend purchasing an existing profitable Snap Fitness to your closest friend? As with any business, I've found that it's best to be the third or fourth owner. That being said, as long as you're getting a great deal on the equipment, the lease terms are good and you don't mind fixing the issues that need fixed- you should be just fine. Be prepared to spend quite a bit of time at your location- I'm there 7 days per week.4. Do you have any advice for someone who is ready to buy their first existing Snap Fitness? Get PT up and running ASAP. Get your staff in line with your ideals so they can model and represent what you want to your membership base. Engage, engage, engage- with your members, staff and community. I've made it a point to know everyone's name who comes to the club and I pass that on to my staff- I can't tell you how many compliments we're received from our members.5. What do you wish you knew before becoming a Snap owner? I wish I would have known that the previous owner should have paid me for the pre-paid memberships ( the portion that I inherited). I would have offered less $ for the business if I had known that.Good luck with your decision- I hope this helps. There is a lot of great advice in this post from people who have been with Snap a whole lot longer than I have- take it all into consideration. |
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Post by snaplongtimer on Apr 1, 2017 15:47:15 GMT
I believe Norma left and purchased an ice cream shop at 25% of the cost of a snap gym working 6 months out of the year and making money. Norma..are you hiring?
After reviewing the questions asked by Norma and never hearing from her again and then suddenly hearing from John I have to say hmmmmmmm. Are these questions I would ask of you all? Recommend to a friend? Probably not. Is this a feeler put out by John? Is he playing us all? Re-read the questions and you tell me....
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Post by cheryl on Apr 1, 2017 18:06:45 GMT
It's been pointed out by legal firms and some on this forum that Snap is extremely vindictive. It's also been pointed out by a former FAM (Are you still out there?) that Snap tries very hard to figure out from posts on the forums who's who, solely for the purpose of going after them for any little thing with lawyers. The intent being to simply cause them to incur legal fees.
That being said it could have been posted by Snap to try to get detailed information about clubs posting on this forum.
However, it would be pretty stupid for them to post something which would ignite more posts about just how badly managed the corporate office is and what sort of corporate culture is prevalent there.
THAT being said, JV isn't too bright and can't seem to plan past the end of the current hour, so it's unlikely he thought about anything that far in the future.
I'm glad to see no one really posted anything which would enable them to target a specific club.
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norma
New Member
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Post by norma on Apr 4, 2017 2:12:22 GMT
Thank you so much for all of the feedback. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share their experiences. It is a lot to process. Right now I'm meeting with local owners also to hear about their experiences with Snap. Thank you again!
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