jayh
New Member
Posts: 1
|
Post by jayh on Jul 19, 2016 19:58:00 GMT
Unlike what was stated in earlier posts and with the announcement I received about this forum, I am not timid about revealing my identity or my club and I will not mask my IP address. I'm Jay Hennessy I own Snap Fitness in Ashland City, TN.
I've been a Snap franchisee for nine years. It's been rocky and very rough at times. Through no fault of mine or corporate, I ended up closing my first club after trying to nurse it to health for 6 years. It was a prototype club, but a large church opened a $23 million facility half mile away and charged the general public next to nothing. It devastated me financially and frankly, I got little help from Corporate.
I've been on both sides of the "corporate / franchisee or dealer" paradigm and my experience with Snap is not all that different than others I've dealt with throughout my career. The thing is, forums of this type are really pointless. The only major thing they do is sow discord. The accomplish little or nothing. If you won't include corporate in these discussions, how can it improve anything? Quite frankly, I look at it as an opportunity to bitch. Perhaps that provides some catharsis once in a while, but beyond that, it's pointless. Actually, I'm currently dealing with a serious issue that's extremely frustrating and is costing me money. It has to do with terminals / merchant processing, but I'm dealing with it through corporate. And I'm not afraid to yell and bitch and get the appropriate people to hear my complaints. But if I were just to come here and vent, I would accomplish nothing. As it is, we're blazing a trail and support services are gaining knowledge on a problem that can possibly help other franchisees.
In regard to the Portal forums, I don't use them (although I probably should) and so I can't comment on what's been scrubbed. But I will say that if an issue were brought that was specific and the experience doesn't really help anyone else (which is the purpose of the forum, right?), and is just the opportunity for someone to complain, then the forum isn't the proper "forum". Take it up specifically with the person at corporate who can do something about it and stick with it until you find the right person! Beyond that, the only reason for it to exist in the forum is spread discontent, which, if it were my responsibility at corporate, I would scrub the entry, too.
I've read through most of the threads here, and there's a lot of great information and lots of legitimate gripes. It's really too bad that this information won't be imparted to corporate where it could actually do some good. But when the discussion leads to mentions of contacting Attorneys General or class action suits, consider what's involved in litigation like this -- you'll never be happy with the results and you'll never accomplish anything substantive other than making it more expensive to do business as a Snap franchisee.
I'm not a shill for corporate. Quite the contrary -- I've been a pain in the ass. But I've also built a successful business by confronting issues directly and working my ass off. This is a business, regardless what anyone has told you about "absentee ownership", etc. If you're not engaged, smart, hard-working and will to address issues directly and honestly, you should never have invested in a business, let alone a franchise.
So, my advice is to scrap this forum and use the portal where everyone can benefit from the discussion. If your post gets scrubbed and it is valuable to others, raise hell!
|
|
|
Post by patdaddy on Jul 20, 2016 11:23:59 GMT
Well jayh that was kind of a buzz kill for the new forum start! However, you makes some excellent points about working within the system for change rather than a bitch-board for venting. Actually, I think both are helpful in the sense that this board allows people to raise issues and points they feel might get screened from Corporate and allows for cathartic venting. I like the speed and instant posting rather than delayed postings. I'm sure corporate can easily sign-up for this forum and see everything anyway....which is good....maybe they will get a sense of the Zee frustrations that are out there.
|
|
|
Post by Amy on Jul 20, 2016 13:54:58 GMT
I agree that Jayh makes some excellent points. My vision for this forum was that initially, and rightfully so, zee's would have a chance to get a lot of stuff off their chests. In just a few days I would say that the top 6-8 major issues have been discussed here (just think if we could get some compromise/change on these handful of issues I believe we could delete this forum today!)
After that I believe that this forum can be a great rallying place to first prioritize the major issues that we want changed/updated/whatever and then decide how best to present this to corporate.
The online forum is 100% in corporate's favor. They simply will not allow any post that shows the true light of some of these issues. It is useless from a franchisee point of view.
I also do believe that to get any change or compromise from corporate will be almost impossible. This is clear as day from their history. We will need strength in numbers, and I mean majority. That still may not do it.
One major tool that is in our war chest is our feedback/lack of recommendation for prospective franchisees. If we use whatever communication tools are at our disposal and really get the word out about the lack of partnership with the franchisor they may begin to listen. While I'm pretty sure their new franchise sales are flat to declining, we can put a real damper in corp's new club sales coffers.
|
|
|
Post by determined1 on Jul 20, 2016 15:07:41 GMT
A couple different points
1. Bring your complaints to corporate, so it can be dealt with. Our experience over and over again is that corporate in almost NEVER willing to do anything. Their typical response is that your club is the only one having that particular issue and that they're not willing to make a change for the benefit of one club. However, in talking with other franchisees we found that almost ever zee we spoke with was having the same sort of issue. Allowing corporate to control what issues are disclosed and what conversations are allowed isn't very productive. A perfect example is not updating member billing automatically. This is a simple fix. However, corporate has done absolutely nothing in regards to this. The only thing they have done is to penalize zees for the billing not being updated. When we first brought this up to corporate we were told that we're the only ones with this problem and that. Additionally, they stated that we should have a good enough relationship with each of our members that they should just give us the new billing. I won't go into why that is such an ignorant statement and shows that Snap really doesn't understand the fitness industry. (As you can see I say almost NEVER. The reason for the almost is that I agreed not to disclose to other franchisees that exception was made for us, after having our attorney contact them)
2. Filing a complaint with the Minnesota AG's office, the BBB of MN, a class action suit or forming a Snap Franchisee Association. The only one of these which isn't viable is the class action. Believe me I'd love to do it, but you basically signed that option away. Gold's Gym is just one example of a franchisor who took advantage of their franchisees to the point that they had enough and formed an association. Once formed both the franchisees and franchisor benefitted. In order to get that started you need to be able to communicate with and unify franchisees. If you know of a better way to do that let me know.
3. A place to gripe - Sure you can gripe if you want. However, what I find is that most provide alternatives for discussion. My experience is that when alternatives are brought up to corporate the response is our way or the highway. It's also interesting that you see this as simply a place to gripe. Does that mean you don't think anyone would have anything positive to say about their experience? I saw a post from darcy stating that she did a club modernization and was happy with it. I doubt that we'll do a full conversion, but I think some of the changes would be beneficial for our clubs.
4. As far as this not being brought up to corporate, I can tell you that in the past non-Snap forum posts have been brought up by corporate. The funny thing is that they consider suggestions as "personal attacks". I've challenged them to provide one example of anything I posted as a personal attack. Their response? Crickets. They don't want to hear anything the franchisees have to say. So I'm curious as to what process or policy you're working on which is a benefit to all of the other Snap Fitness franchisees which corporate is willing to modify. The other thing I found funny is that they brought up one post they claimed I made and not only did I not post it I didn't realize it was an issue until they brought it up. Oops.
5. A beacon for potential franchisees - I wish a forum like this was available when I began. I would have never put my money and time into it. Anything less than $1M/month is not worth the aggravation of dealing with a company like Snap Fitness. We have the mandatory "Franchises Available" sign up in our club. Members ask for our experience and we brief them on programs like the $8.95 program, member billing not being updated, decline recovery, finder's fees, etc.
6. Disclosing your location, IP, etc - Feel free to disclose whatever you're willing to disclose. However, I can tell you that our experience is that Snap Fitness is an extremely vindictive company. Disclose at your own peril.
7. If you're not engaged, smart, hard-working and will to address issues directly and honestly. - Engaged - Snap touts this as being an absentee owner model - We found this to be false almost immediately. We put in waayyy too many hours - Smart - Perhaps if I was smarter I would have waited - My experience is that Snap doesn't like smart people. They want blind followers. We made the mistake early on of taking Snap's advice in several areas. They were the experts in this field and we were paying for their industry knowledge. We found that snap is extremely short sighted and putting their own interests first. If they can't figure out how to make money from you then they don't see any value in it. We've still never recovered fully from advice we took from them in the beginning. - Hard working - Again not an absentee owner model - We put in more than 100 hours per week. - will[ing] to address issues directly and honestly - It's never gotten us anywhere with corporate. Again their way or the highway, until you bring in your attorneys. The less expensive way is to form a franchisee association. Which takes me full circle.
|
|
|
Post by cheryl on Jul 24, 2016 19:40:12 GMT
Hi jayh,
I'm really looking forward to hearing the policies and/or procedures you're working on with corporate to improve things for zees.
I may have missed it, but I don't recall reading anyone's post about a failing business and pointing to Snap as the reason, so that just seems to be something out of left field. If I'm running a successful business in Communist China and they decide they want to levy tax A, tax B and tax C on my company and I point out how ridiculous those taxes are it doesn't mean I'm failing. What it means is that Communist China is simply making a money grab and stealing money out of my pocket or pocketbook and taking food out of the mouths of my children and I'm calling attention to it. This is the same effect that the different things like the $8.95 trial, credit card terminals, no auto updating of credit cards, decline recovery program, national marketing fee, website fee, finders fee on top of the website fee have on SUCCESSFUL zees.
|
|
|
Post by Amy on Jul 25, 2016 14:58:19 GMT
Determined...excellent post, I am glad you are on board. We echo every point you made. I am the one that set up this forum. I used an email list that had approximately 450 club emails on it. About 70 came back undeliverable (closed clubs no doubt). I'd like to make sure we capture all clubs just not sure how to go about that. Once we do I see no reason to wait on trying to build an association and finally get some results with this dictator like franchisor.
|
|
|
Post by greenergrass on Aug 10, 2016 0:37:49 GMT
Amy - just wondering if any of those 450 on the list were corporate clubs? Maybe that is ok if they are. Unfiltered comments/concerns by franchisees, freedom of speech, are allowed in our country.
What is interesting about this forum? It's the number of subjects that franchisees have to talk about. And the number of comments. Far fewer than what shows up on the portal's forum. I think we want to make sure we are not wasting time but instead using it to find good ideas from each other. I also prefer to know that I'm not on this island by myself as the island is getting flooded and I'm barely hanging on. The new fees don't help. What I pay corporate now has increased by 30% since I first opened. And this is growing. It's growing because corporate needs/wants more money? Probably. Unfortunately, as franchisees make less money for all the time they spend (so true, it's not absentee owner), they will look for greener grass.Corporate will then have fewer and fewer locations. I predict we will see a decline. As I've said in another post, several in my area have already closed. Others are under new (newbie) ownership drinking the corporate koolaid in hopes to bring failing clubs back to life. So in this respect, corporate does need to know about the common dissatisfaction. They have delayed the inevitable by telling everyone that they had no choice but to sign a 10 year agreement. In that, you should all fight back because they LIED to you. Your early franchise agreement told you that you had unlimited five year renewals. They did this, they deceived you, possibly because they could have predicted franchisees would start to bail with the onset of $10 gyms.
I read somewhere that the biggest mistake business owners make is to give up too soon. So I've done my best to stay open. But the alternative I have right now is so much better than waiting for the day that SF will make a come back or the $10 gyms will go away. So when this current five year agreement expires, there is a very good chance this location will close for good. I do wish corporate would wake up and understand what a negative impact they have, and find away to keep good owners. I am a good owner. I very rarely get less than a 4/5 (many 5/5s!) and only lower if someone didn't like that they had to give 30 day notice or they say our price is too high.
|
|
|
Post by cheryl on Aug 10, 2016 1:52:33 GMT
I found a site a couple days ago that lists all of the Snap sites corporate has for sale. Apparently they're selling them through Craigslist. The site lists some of them, but also gives the google incantation to pull them all up. I can't find the site now, but there are something like 90 for sale in the US. I'm sure none of those clubs will be responding and there are most likely new email addresses for clubs recently taken over.
|
|
|
Post by Amy on Aug 10, 2016 12:35:10 GMT
Hi Greengrass...Yes corporate clubs were some of the ones on the list. I hade one respond to stop sending them emails because they are a "corporate" club. I also know that the corporate office is aware of this forum. The way corporate is running the business we will continue to see the number of clubs in the US decline (as it has over each of the last several years). They have their sights set on the international market now for any qrowth, since they are still in their honeymoon period in that part of the world. Don't worry though, it won't be long before the international zee's become disgruntled with all of the increases in fees and detrimental programs.
Finally, while it is hard to believe that the corporate office will actually listen to their zee's and actually implement any of the changes we demand, I would recommend continuing to post ideas, criticism and positive feedback (if there ever is any) and who knows, maybe the impossible will happen.
|
|
|
Post by thatkidfromjersey on Aug 18, 2016 19:09:02 GMT
I'm not a shill for corporate. Quite the contrary -- I've been a pain in the ass. But I've also built a successful business by confronting issues directly and working my ass off. This is a business, regardless what anyone has told you about "absentee ownership", etc. If you're not engaged, smart, hard-working and will to address issues directly and honestly, you should never have invested in a business, let alone a franchise. So, my advice is to scrap this forum and use the portal where everyone can benefit from the discussion. If your post gets scrubbed and it is valuable to others, raise hell! The simple fact that you said that makes me think you're a shill for corporate. You say there will be no results from this but I disagree. Conversely, I've been reading and posting on the portal boards for years, and frankly, I have not seen ONE THING suggested on there by a franchisee that has been put into practice. And you say raise hell if your post gets scrapped. Are you kidding? You don't think that has been done before? The whole reason this board exists is because franchisees have been "raising Hell" for years and getting nowhere. NOWHERE. By your philosophy, workers shouldn't unionize either because they'll get nowhere? The one thing that I slightly agree with is that yes, this board by itself will not do anything. It is up to us franchisees on here to turn our talk, our grievances, our ideas INTO ACTION. At the end of the day, SNAP is nothing without us. We are corporate's customers, just like our members are OUR customers. We can't exist without them, and they can't exist without us. So we need to talk about ways we can get our ideas heard and implemented. Because yes, using this board just to bitch is futile. I say we really start thinking about turning talk into action and getting all other 'zees on board.
|
|
|
Post by John V on Aug 18, 2016 21:48:20 GMT
Thanks Jay for being an ambassador of the brand. Guys I cant stress enough, idea exchange is healthy and good, wasting time venting and stirring the pot is not. If you have issues you want to discuss about the brand, contact me directly and i will address them with you and see what can be done. Not one person on any of these blogs is going to resolve issues for you. Lets try to stay focused at a brand and do what is takes to win.
|
|
|
Post by fishstyxx on Aug 19, 2016 4:41:15 GMT
John,
Here's the problem. Issues are brought up to corporate over and over again by multiple franchisees. Each is told they're the only one pushing for it and therefore it's not on the agenda. This was obvious with the $8.95 one month prepay. A petition signed by almost every franchisee was submitted and promptly ignored. Multiple suggestions have been made on how to improve it. Among those are to make it an opt in program and to make it a home club program. The response? Corporate tries to tell franchisees that all of the other franchisees love it. Sorry, in my informal poll I find those that even tolerate it to be about 5%. A response from corporate in the forums about measuring the effectiveness of that program was that they would take a poll, but only include those with a 70% success rate. (Yes, that percentage is probably off, but one can garner the gist)
Now fast forward and we have a new issue. More members than ever before having their billing declined, many of these because of new chipped cards. However, there are other situations such as local banks merging, being bought out, databases being hacked, etc which cause credit card numbers to be changed. Visa and Mastercard provide a solution to automatically update that billing information, it's used by DirecTV, Verizon, At&T and can be found in almost every billing software offering out there. This includes those catering specifically to the fitness industry. We've been asking for this for over a year. We're told it's only available for Visa (which isn't true) and therefore not important. Instead snap will be focusing on rolling out things like paperless membership agreements. In my discussions with other franchisees most of us have had this capability for several years, and most employ some form of encryption of those documents. Automatically updating credit card information is crucial in the role it plays in retention. The message we're getting from snap is that retention isn't important, but paperless agreements are.
Also, members of this forum have been asked to be detailed and specific regarding the issues they're encountering and the majority are. I wouldn't classify that as wasting time venting and stirring the pot. I would also note that jay has been asked to be detailed and specific regarding some of the items he's posted, but has no response. It works both ways. Coming into the forum and stating "snap sucks" or "snap rocks" does no one any good. DETAILS and SPECIFICS are what are needed and they can by found in many parts of this forum.
You can consider this contacting you directly about these two issues, which are on the minds of many franchisees.
|
|
|
Post by cheryl on Aug 19, 2016 20:13:04 GMT
Wait, we were told to contact our expert on brand specialty, also known as our expert on BS and brand performance specialist. We've done that ad nauseam only to be told over and over again that nothing we've brought up is an issue with other franchisees and it's a priority to Snap. Snap is focusing on other (non-beneficial) enhancements such as prospect engager and paperless agreements. None of which are of any interest to the majority of franchisees.
|
|
|
Post by determined1 on Aug 19, 2016 21:53:42 GMT
As I've said before the only option I really see is to create a franchisee association. John's statements above and the email which he sent to Dale clearly demonstrate that corporate views the ideas and suggestions from franchisees to be nothing more than garbage. Additionally, the information disclosed by formerfam is frightening. I admit we've never had a positive experience when dealing with Caleb and found him to be obnoxious.
So the question is what does anybody do with garbage? They discard it as being worthless. That's what john has clearly stated as being HQ's opinion of anything not coming out of their corporate offices.
Approximately how many franchisees are there these days? I'm sure even with the decimated numbers there are still enough to keep the monthly cost low. I have a top notch law firm on speed dial to set this up as soon as I give them the go ahead. If we have even 150 franchisees on board $50 from each is enough to get this set up. That's far less than what's being sucked out of our pockets every month for useless tools.
|
|
|
Post by supercool on Aug 19, 2016 22:07:34 GMT
Subway's franchisees have an association, and their corporate office (including Subway's founder, Fred DeLuca) actually encouraged it. They work with the association actively, and respect their franchisees and their input.
Big difference versus what we've seen from Snap corporate, huh? Maybe it is time to form a franchisee association.
|
|