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Post by determined1 on Mar 14, 2017 16:29:47 GMT
Well, made it out to the IHRSA convention and walked around and spoke with the different member management software companies. Here's what I found
1. Pricing: Some have a flat fee and some charge based on the dollar amount processed. Those who charge on a percentage of the dollar amount don't have a separate charge from the processing company. We're basically getting hit twice. Once for the monthly software fee and once for the monthly processing fee based on the dollar amount. There was one vendor out there whose rates would be almost double what we're currently paying. They were a brand new company.
On average the cost of the software is about $70/month. At that price you get a much better system than what we currently pay much more for. About 80% of them have auto updaters for credit cards. Most have tiered programs where if you pay more you get more features. At the price we pay for our system you're at the upper echelon of most products and a much more feature rich product. As an example you can start with the basic product from MindBody and get a superior product for $75/month. You can add more features for a bit more
Starter - $75
Pro - $125
Accelerate - $195
Ultimate - #290
Fitware has less features than the starter level.
2. Reputation: Those who have been in the industry (Motionsoft, Mindbody, iGoFigure, ABC, Twin Oaks, Jonas, ACC) seem to have a better grip on pricing and features than those who are just coming into the industry. The newbies seem overpriced and feature lacking. Fitware fits in with the newbies. However, it's unlikely that any of the newbies will be around in a year or two if they don't change.
3. Support: Almost every company had 24/7 support. Again one or two of the newbies didn't. Also, the support wasn't at an additional charge. I asked a couple if there was any possibility that they may drop to a 9 to 5, Monday thru Friday model. Almost all of them laughed at the idea and said their customers would change to a different vendor within a week if they did that.
4. Apps: Several of the companies included an app that members could download which would allow them to schedule an appointment with a trainer (if they had a package), sign up for classes, get nutritional information as well as workouts, some integrated with fitbit and apple watch data. Typically those types of features moved you up to the $100/month plan.
What was obvious is the fact that what we have isn't even close to the industry average and we're being charged about 3 times the industry average for it.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Mar 14, 2017 21:38:35 GMT
Determined thanks for the feedback! I was curious how your visit went. After visiting the many different companies, are there any you favored or became very interested in? I realize you could only take so much in before moving to the next.
We are paying the development costs of Fitware. Why? Because, we have to. Just think...In about 5 years Fitware will be great! lol
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Post by determined1 on Mar 15, 2017 2:04:59 GMT
I liked the Mindbody application. Their pricing is reasonable, their software is more intuitive and feature rich. However, if there are features you don't one then don't upgrade to the next level. One thing is that their software works with the passport door system. I'm not familiar with that system.
I've also looked into alternate door systems. The one which had the best features was brivo. That's the company behind protection One. Many of the software vendors integrate with that system and brivo has a lot of options for entry.
One thing some of the vendors require is for you to collect all of the billing data from your system at month end, create a file and upload that to the processor. Yuck!! This seemed to be something found with those new to the member management and billing game.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Mar 25, 2017 16:49:41 GMT
Determined, did you introduce yourself as a Snap club owner at the convention or discuss with any vendors our system in comparison? Usually, people in the same business seem to always have some insight into how they compare to others in the industry. Wondering what their feedback is or general comments they may have.
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Post by determined1 on Mar 29, 2017 13:51:13 GMT
No, we stopped habing Snap Fitness put on our information. I have a buddy that has a club and we go under his club name. He's independent, so we can get a true picture of what's out there. What we used to find is that most companies feel that unless you're a snap partner you can't buy from them. For billing, most know you have no voice and so they won't spend time with you. It makes sense, because they want to use their time wisely, but at the same time we need to be able to get accurate information.
One annoying thing we found is that almost any snap "partner" will negotiate a lower price than what you pay as a snap owner.
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Post by Amy on Mar 29, 2017 14:18:14 GMT
Don't forget the bill of goods Peter and his cronies sold all of these "problem" zee's. They were told you could be profitable being completely absent and only staffing the gyms about 20 hours/week. Now they are working to get rid of these club owners, blaming them for their failures and bring in fresh $$$.
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Post by greenergrass on Mar 29, 2017 15:47:15 GMT
Bait & Switch. That's the Snap way.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Mar 29, 2017 20:54:43 GMT
Don't forget the bill of goods Peter and his cronies sold all of these "problem" zee's. They were told you could be profitable being completely absent and only staffing the gyms about 20 hours/week. Now they are working to get rid of these club owners, blaming them for their failures and bring in fresh $$$. Yes, they did. Years ago telling me to get out of the gym and more recently it's no longer an absentee business...get back in! |
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Post by determined1 on Mar 30, 2017 3:50:48 GMT
When we bought into the franchise we thought two of the key things we were getting were industry expertise and a trusted advisor. Even before we opened our doors they were trying to push us in a flawed direction.
o Desk - Every fitness club I've been in had a front desk. When prospects came into the club they knew where to go. It also provided the staff a certain presence. We never had any intention of putting in a folding table. To us it looked cheap and stupid. It was also way overpriced like everything else snap sells you. I think they sold it for $250 and we could buy the same thing from Costco for $50. They fought with us to rip out our new desk, purchase the table and use it. "Desks aren't part of the snap model". We fought over and over again with their team. Finally we told them we scrapped plans for the desk (which was already built), but finally got them to back down on the stupid table, since we already had the exact same thing. Fast forward several years and now snap realizes you should have a table.
o The craftsman cabinet - This is another thing we thought looked stupid. We have a locked room which can easily fit everything. Again they agrued that this was part of the snap model. We got out of having to buy that stupid thing too. I don't know if this is still part of the snap "model"
o Classes - We planned on having classes. Again, snap said things like classes, pools and locker rooms were money pits and not part of the snap model. We figured they had done their homework on this part and so we decided against having classes. When we were negotiating our lease we had the opportunity to take 2 adjacent spaces. The main goal of the extra space was for classes. Not long after this snap decided classes were the new "must have". Again, they didn't understand the fitness industry. We should have gone with our guts, but I argued that snap was our trusted advisor. We were paying them for their experience. Why would we ignore that expert advice? Yes, that is still something I regret.
o Absentee owner - This was one of the main things they pushed. The sales pitch was that you calculate the number of members you need and staff heavily when you first open to get to that number. Once you get to that number then it's basically an automated facility. Members come in, do their work out and leave. You only need a skeleton crew. It took about 3 months to realize that was nowhere near the truth. We tried cutting back hours to what they suggested. I never realized the turnover rate of memberships. If you don't have the staff available to sign up new members you won't have your doors open for long. It was obvious that Peter knew this was a flawed idea. I say that because one year I made a comment about our front desk staff and he immediately jumped on the fact that you need to have a full schedule. It can't be successful if it's staffed just 3 or 4 hours a day. Funny, I didn't bring it up he did. I commented that we realized that almost immediately and keep a full staff.
o Trusted advisor - Unfortunately it took me about 3 years to realize snap was not a trusted advisor at all. Their main goal was to sell things to their franchisees. It didn't matter if they improved the member experience or not. It didn't matter if it was a good product or not. Their main objective was to get as much money out of the franchisees pocket as possible. The conventions feel like your talking to a bunch of used car sales people. Fast forward a few years and snap realized that franchisees were catching onto this. They began forcing franchisees to pay for shoddy software backed by inept and limited support at a premium price and mostly for things you use once, realize how bad they are and never touch again.
I'll also add that I find it laughable that snap recommends building a member advisory council. This from a group who doesn't want to hear anything you have to say or recommend. How bad is snap? In that presentation that talk about raising money for things like "helping to fight literacy". They don't just say it they have a slide on it. Should we really be fighting literacy? LMAO
Us: We've had members ask us to take a spouse or child off of their account, changing it from joint to single or family to joint. Since they've paid for them for the month we have to set this for the first of the month. The only way to do this right now is to change the dues to the new dues and make a note to terminate the member at the beginning of the month and change the type. It would be much easier if the system would allow us to change the type and dues for a future date.
Support: Thanks for contacting us. Unfortunately this is how the system was designed to run.
Us: Well then whoever designed it is an idiot. It should be one step, not several done at different points in time. Who's making these asinine decisions
Caleb: Your degrading remarks agaist [sic] our team will not be toterated [sic]. I can put you in tuch [sic] with someone in our sales group who can help you find a buyer for your club
Advisory panel? Ha ha, do as we say not as we do.
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Post by greenergrass on Mar 31, 2017 3:02:55 GMT
I've heard this statement! It is their remark whenever they don't like what we have to say: "I can put you in touch with someone who can help you find a buyer for your club".
The idea to sell monthly memberships using credit cards is seriously flawed as we all know now. Attrition was bad enough before the Target CC issue happened. Insisting on bank draft as a form of payment is the way to go. Unfortunately, Ipads are not set up to use anything but credit card. Minimal functionality, add another $30 to our expenses.
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Post by Disillusioned on Apr 4, 2017 2:33:32 GMT
Caleb: Your degrading remarks agaist [sic] our team will not be toterated [sic]. I can put you in tuch [sic] with someone in our sales group who can help you find a buyer for your club
WOW...If one of my employees EVER said that to a customer (isn't that what we are? -- I know...LOL) they would be fired on the spot. I'm embarrassed that he would actually post/send anything like that but I guess that shows the type of work that they do as well.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Mar 29, 2018 15:28:38 GMT
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would ask this question about the IHRSA since some good info was written here on last years convention. Anyone go to the one this year? Determined1? Just curious of anyone's findings/thoughts? I've been meaning to go and thought it would be this year, but couldn't manage the time off. Hopefully, next year.
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Post by determined1 on Mar 30, 2018 20:14:32 GMT
For the first time in many, many years I wasn't able to make it. Fortunately IHRSA isn't fining me $1,000 for not attending. If things stay this way I don't see any way to make it to snap's convention. I'd have to eliminate staffed hours at my club for the week. I probably wouldn't have a club to come back to.
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