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Post by greenergrass on Oct 13, 2016 0:23:38 GMT
I have had two of these recently. Today I called in to check on the chargeback for a monthly member who called to cancel just days before the billing. I was told it was a policy with VISA that if a member says to stop payment, it doesn't matter if they signed an agreement requiring a 30 day notice. I provided the copy of this signed agreement, and the email where he cancelled just days before billing. I will probably lose this one. I supposed this is now the way it will go for all chargebacks with VISA. A few years ago, I was able to win something like this. Somehow, the policy has changed and VISA is taking the side of a person over a legitimate signed business agreement.
So why are we even accepting credit cards? I think this is a great reason to get away from VISA and switch to bank draft. I've mentioned it before that all my new agreements are BD only unless the member wants to pay more both up front and monthly.
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Post by supercool on Oct 13, 2016 14:27:47 GMT
Yeah, the whole chargeback is completely slanted against the business owner. They can dispute any charge, basically, and get their money back. Visa doesn't care if you have a signed contract.
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Post by Circling the Drain on Oct 13, 2016 15:48:43 GMT
Doesn't matter if it is a cc or a bank draft. You will lose every time. All they have to do is call their bank and tell them not to allow the payment. Fortunately, we have had only 3 or 4 of these in the past few years, but have lost every time even though we submitted the signed agreement. CC companies and banks will take the side of their customer because they don't want to lose their business. Our agreements are pretty much useless.
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Post by greenergrass on Oct 13, 2016 19:47:35 GMT
The former member is now lying about when they asked to be terminated. They are now saying they terminated three months earlier and then withdrew authorization to use the CC mid month (the 18th) which is still not min 30 days but their email that I sent in is from the very end of the month (not the 18th). Why would a CC company not take my side when I have proof and a signed agreement? This should be an easy answer.
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Post by fishstyxx on Oct 13, 2016 22:57:00 GMT
We've disputed every chargeback. We have membership agreements and even door logs showing that the person continued to use the club. The credit card companies will credit them back up to 4 months worth of dues, even though their door logs and video footage show them in the club and working out. All the person has to say is that they canceled the membership.
Here's another to make your blood boil on a couple different fronts. Had an employee credit back a former member $110. She credited back the wrong credit card. The credit card she credited back had been lost/stolen. You'd think that since you can't charge a lost/stolen credit card you can't credit it back either. Nope, they're perfectly happy to credit it back. Their solution? Call the former member and ask them for new billing information. Here's my solution. How about if I head down to the local courthouse and file a claim against you for this and all of the other bullshit you've charged me for over the years.
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Post by firecrackergirl on Oct 17, 2016 18:04:50 GMT
Chargebacks are a pain in the butt... Both at Snap and my other biz, I don't even bother anymore. I won once... Because the customer in question had been filing them right and left to try to pay off a credit card... The company caught up with her. But yes, all the more reason to bank draft!
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Post by snaplongtimer on Oct 18, 2016 19:11:52 GMT
With the exception of cases like what firecracker said above, banks will never side with you. It's not their decision. They only present evidence from what you submit to the customer and it's up to the customer to either drop it in agreement or continue to pursue their money. The banks don't want to get involved with disputes, but only abuse by their customers. Your only step beyond that is small claims court I believe. Once I felt like not honoring their card anymore, but that only hurts me.
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Post by thatkidfromjersey on Oct 24, 2016 15:54:59 GMT
Banks, credit card companies, etc., will always tend to side with the customer, no matter what the business. Chargebacks in the fitness industry are part of the cost of doing business. Going to bank draft is not a solution, it will probably hurt you in the long run due to higher fees and many members do not want to provide that information. Our only defense is to take steps to minimize the number of chargebacks you get.
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Post by determined1 on Oct 27, 2016 19:29:10 GMT
It's a mess just trying to figure out what's what. Is 5/3 the same as Vantiv? I know vantiv has accessmyiq.com and then where does Jonas come in? I have a chargeback which no one can seem to find, but which is being pulled from my bank account. Never received any sort of dispute notice or anything else. Makes no sense. If it was charged back I'd expect to see someone come up delinquent. Nerve racking. We have to be able to get a better company to run billing.
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Post by determined1 on Oct 27, 2016 19:48:23 GMT
Also, in response to the OP - My way of dealing with chargebacks is pretty simple. First I check to see if it's a legitimate complaint. Fitware has done some pretty bizarre things. It's usually not this, simply because people will call or stop by if we've charged them in err. These can be resolved quickly and I usually give the person some sort of swag for their frustration (usually a shirt). Next, I call the person up (once I know who it is) and find out what's going on. If they don't return my call after 3 attempts, or if they're just an ass then I send them to collections. After that I'm done with it.
Chargebacks annoy the crap out of me because we try our best to communicate everything with members so there are never any surprises. Almost every time we have a chargeback it's because someone is lying about canceling their membership.
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Post by greenergrass on Oct 27, 2016 22:22:09 GMT
I'm still waiting for a couple of verdicts. If I win or lose, I'll let you know. With one of them, I made sure the bank knows that I am also their customer. If the chargeback is against me, I'll move my accounts. These chargebacks are a lot of work though because I've had to explain my position twice now and fax several pages each time.
Fortunately they don't happen often. My last one was a year ago and it was my fault but that was also annoying because the guy never called me first. I thought they were supposed to first try to ask the vendor for a reversal and this was the next step if it was denied. I would have reversed it immediately and I told him this.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Jan 1, 2019 17:43:55 GMT
Ever receive a chargeback prenotification and have it arrive snail mail on the day it's due? Then the official doc arriving a day late so you don't have a chance to respond? Wtf. I called and asked about that and guy tells me just lucky it's not amex or discover. Apparently they're worse. It's like the deck is stacked against the merchant again. I couldn't even see it online at accessmyIQ. Ridiculous. I submit anyway. Shit's going to hit the fan if I'm told it's too late to respond. Just when I thought I have a chance to fight a thief.
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Post by determined1 on Jan 3, 2019 19:06:07 GMT
Send them to collections. Make sure to add any delinquency, bookkeeping and accounting fees. Our fees typically add $200 to any outstanding balance. I've had members call and beg to just pay their original balance. Nope, sorry it was transferred over to corporate who just gave it to the collections company and it's out of my hands now. I gave you a chance.
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Post by Still Pissed on Jan 4, 2019 18:01:11 GMT
Is the $200 spelled out in the member agreement? We add 30% of what is due, but the higher number seems a better way to negotiate with the member before it goes to collections.
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Post by determined1 on Jan 6, 2019 20:47:49 GMT
We simply state that additional fees will be incurred if it goes to collections. When we call we state that we're trying to get it resolved before it goes to collections where fees can run as high as $500. That typically gets their attention.
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