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Post by fishstyxx on Aug 19, 2016 5:10:41 GMT
Here are a couple ways this program hurts:
1. You mention 1/3 of these people never step foot in your club. Prior to this program we would average about $120/month from people who would leave a $20 deposit for an access card, not sign up and never come back for their $20. We'd call, we'd email, but most wouldn't come back in to get their money. Not sure if they thought we were going to cast a spell on them and make them sign up, but they didn't come back in. Of course if they did come back in we would have loved to hear what their objections were. (Yeah, I know that's most likely why they decided to leave their $20). The point is this money has all but dried up. We funneled that deposit money to our advertising budget. The result we don't advertise as much and are much more stringent on our advertising.
2. That 80% you mention are people we hear from who tell us they were going to join anyway, but if we're going to save them a months dues they'll take it. Why take a months dues from the franchisee simply to give corporate $7 (estimated margin on the $8.95 fee)
3. There's also the issue that these $8.95 one month prepays aren't being vetted at all. Prior members with the same name, same date of birth, same address are simply passed through and allowed to purchase a one month prepay for $8.95. When one goes through the site it's extremely simple to figure out that all someone has to do is change their email address and they go from being denied to approved. At that point the burden falls on us to be the bad guy and say "sorry folks, you're previous members and not eligible. The moose out front should've told you". But seriously this typically never ends well. There was one time when I told a former member he wasn't eligible and he just said "oh well, he just thought it would be an easy way to get an additional month for free. However, instead of creating a scene in the club, which is the norm, he opted to buy an 18 month prepay. However, this is the exception and not the norm. Oh, and yes there is a program fee associated with that.
You can simply read through this thread to find other issues and solutions to this awful, tired program. You'll find many wonderful ideas which, needless to say, corporate has just brushed aside.
Oh, one thing I don't think was mentioned: It sounds like Australia's $8.95 program is set up much differently. From what I understand they get $8.95 for their first month, but have to sign up for an actual membership which includes a program fee, access card etc. Am I understanding that correctly? If so, how is it that the one size fits all program doesn't fit them? Does it have something to do with the Coriolis effect?
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Post by thatkidfromjersey on Aug 19, 2016 11:57:11 GMT
here is the answer over the past 4 years of the program about 1/3 join 1/3 try the club and don't join and 1/3 don't ever step foot in you club. over 80% of the people that do join do it within the first week and the average person using it in total less them 7 times. i have looked at this very closely over the years and i dont no of a single case where this has actually hurt anyone's business. you can still collect a 20 dollar global access fee and if you are doing the 3 path preso correctly you can and should still be getting a program fee, selling PT, supplements, My Zone... if you struggle with this contact your BPS for help so we can get you converting these into memberships. Hi John. What I see here is you doing what corporate is great at doing. Firing back without actually reading and considering what people are saying. Please READ our posts and think about them from a constructive, not defensive, position. And please try to accept this issue is not US. It's not US failing to see the benefits of the program. It's not US failing to implement the program properly. Yes, even a shitty promotion will work at certain times and under certain circumstances. This $8.95 promotion is a LOSER for the majority of clubs the majority of the time, PERIOD, but you guys refuse to move away from it. One final note - if this program WAS effective, you would have seen other organizations jumping on board. As you know, the health club industry is very copy-cat. When one fitness organization starts doing something that works, everyone else is doing it the following month. NO ONE is doing month trials, even though snap has been doing it for years. No one. John, I'd like you to walk into Peter's office this morning and tell him to get rid of this promotion once and for all. Stand up for us all and make that happen.
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Post by thatkidfromjersey on Aug 19, 2016 12:09:01 GMT
here is the answer over the past 4 years of the program about 1/3 join 1/3 try the club and don't join and 1/3 don't ever step foot in you club. over 80% of the people that do join do it within the first week and the average person using it in total less them 7 times. i have looked at this very closely over the years and i dont no of a single case where this has actually hurt anyone's business. you can still collect a 20 dollar global access fee and if you are doing the 3 path preso correctly you can and should still be getting a program fee, selling PT, supplements, My Zone... if you struggle with this contact your BPS for help so we can get you converting these into memberships. And one other thing. Please show me some HARD data that shows the conversion rate for the one month trials is better than that of the week trials. You guys keep saying 30% conversion rate, 1/3 join, etc. But I get better than that for week trials and I don't have to give away a whole month. Again, show me data that shows "1 month trial benefits vs. 1 week trial", not "1 month benefits vs. nothing". I'm curious to see what you have.
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Post by Amy on Aug 19, 2016 13:27:22 GMT
John, thank you for some corporate feedback. It is a little silly that we have to get it here vs. on our portal that we pay for. And please, do not attempt to defend the usefulness of that portal. I have had dozens and dozens of posts never published that in no way violated the rules/regulations.
With regards to your response I have one statement and one question that needs follow up on your part.
We are a successful club with over 1,000 members. We have had hundreds of 30 day trials (just as we would have had hundreds of trial weeks if this program was not in place). There is absolutely no way even close to 80% signed up in the first week. I believe you either have faulty data or you are simply wrong. If 5% did I would be surprised.
Why does Snap Fitness feel the need to give 30 days for free? You would agree that Anytime Fitness has seriously outpaced Snap's growth over the last 4 years. They do not offer this. They offer the free week. Also, their franchisees have the additional challenge of getting people to sign a long term contract. Why is it their franchise outpaces ours without giving a free month away?
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Post by greenergrass on Sept 11, 2016 22:18:23 GMT
Nearly a month has gone by and no response to some perfectly good points. JV must be busy working with his favorite, less complicated Zs. We have a franchisee here (Amy) with 1000 members. Clearly this is a good owner with a successful gym. I'm unfortunately too close to PF and people in the area are cheap. At one time I was the cheap gym versus a $60 gym (which is now $20). So I'm a "bad" owner. I'm probably one of those "disengaged" owners. I was at one time very engaged and spent lots of time working at the gym. Now it's just hard to be "engaged" in this business when the income from the club is grossly lower than the expenses and those expenses from corporate have climbed year after year. And when the cheap gyms entered, all we had was easyfit. And the expectation is to spend more money than what is really available. I've already spent more than I'll ever get back. And I know I'm not alone. It's impossible to have more staffed hours because there is no way to pay for this.
So even though we are at opposite ends, me and Amy, we share a frustration with this $8.95 30 day trial. And really, all the responses we get from JV and corporate are with a condescending attitude. We are not good enough to be listened to? We are not spending enough time or money? Time and money spent (subscription fees) and new stuff is not a guarantee. Because has anyone else noticed how few leads we are getting these days whether they are website leads, one week trial leads, or even 30 day trial leads? In my case, the area population has not changed. In fact in one area, it's grown quite a bit. I did the new movers for well over a year and never had one person bring in a mailer from this. Still, I have to wonder how much effort is taken to further the corporate name for more leads. It seems to me these arrangements with the car driver and country singer have not really lead to a increase in leads for us, have they? Rather than spend all this money on these two celebrities, save it and then remove this 30 day trial. Back to lead generation. I'd really like to see some data. How many leads were we getting in ex. 2010 versus 2015 or 2016. Even with the move toward Co-ops, which means more money for bigger advertising campaigns, there has been a decline in the number of memberships in our region (anyone else see this?). In our peak campaign for the new year, the number of memberships in 2016 was much lower than any previous year.
Amy - what kind of market are you in and to what do you attribute the success?
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Post by greenergrass on Sept 11, 2016 23:35:15 GMT
When JV said 80% of 30 day trials joined, that was 80% of the 1/3 who joined have joined within one week. And it's my understanding that some of the clubs are letting the prospects join for free if they join within a week. So they get a free month plus no joining fees. The sad part is 2/3 is a fail. 1/3 did not even use the cheap trial so why would they spend money on a gym membership. Ever. I believe the 1/3 joining would have joined with a one week trial or as a walk in! For me, I have had more people join just as a walk in or call in compared to a 30 day trial. The 30 day typically just makes the process longer than it needs to be. The three path, as long as you have a trainer, can be used no matter how the prospect starts (as a walk in, appointment, or trial). So the only purpose the 30 day serves is to reduce the amount of income we have when someone joins whether it's a delay of 3-4 weeks of membership dues or reduction in joining fees. And it also sets a lot of prospective members up for a big fail when it comes to fitness.
I'd really like to know how I could get 1000 members or even 500! It sounds like 30 day trials are not the answer. I've tried getting people to do referrals with contests and $50 credits, etc. I've emailed 100s of previous members with rejoining promos and I'll get one or two who reply. We get mostly 5s and 4s for reviews. We are only getting a 1 when someone is mad about having to pay a final month of dues! I'm just not convinced that changing the look of the gym or adding MyZone will make the difference. Especially when there are so few leads from various advertising, community events, emails, referrals, and the website.
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Post by determined1 on Sept 23, 2016 23:53:00 GMT
Another problem with the $8.95 scam. You tell the person they get a bigger discount the sooner they sign up. However if you have clubs around you that have no sign up fees then they exhaust the 30 days at your club. Change their email address, do another 30 days at another nearby club (or at your club again, since corporate doesn't check anything) and after 6 months or so at $8.95/month they sign up at the club with no enrollment and then just come in and use your club anyway.
Oh, also found out that you live in Florida, exhaust your 30 day trials there and then find you'll be going somewhere far away, like Alaska, you can just request a $8.95 1 month membership in Alaska even though all you have is a Florida ID. It's such a BS scam perpetuated by corporate at the expense of the franchisees.
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Post by determined1 on Sept 25, 2016 12:28:14 GMT
Additionally, if this is such a great program and not simply a way for corporate to steal business from franchisees and put them in a position of weakness during the trial process then why can't I get one of these wonderful deals for 9round... or Steele Fitness... or YogaFit Studios? (All the other lift brands) Additionally, it's also not offered by Kosama, but apparently not part of liftbrands. Kosama offers a 1 DAY, yes day, not week trial.
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Post by supercool on Sept 26, 2016 14:38:50 GMT
Additionally, if this is such a great program and not simply a way for corporate to steal business from franchisees and put them in a position of weakness during the trial process then why can't I get one of these wonderful deals for 9round... or Steele Fitness... or YogaFit Studios? (All the other lift brands) Additionally, it's also not offered by Kosama, but apparently not part of liftbrands. Kosama offers a 1 DAY, yes day, not week trial. FYI, my understanding is that Kosama was sold back to the original owner a while back.
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Post by Get Real Guys! on Sept 27, 2016 20:07:03 GMT
Make your OWN trial 30 day trial IN CLUB. You collect billing info. If they don't cancel, they get billed!!Conversion rateon this is 80% in my club. Its fool proof!
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Post by cheryl on Sept 28, 2016 11:59:32 GMT
A 30 day trial is for fools. Why would you want to give away more money than you need to? Why not a 60 day trial. Hell, if more time is better why not a 1 year trial. Then they'll REALLY know. Most of the time just taking a tour around our club is enough to understand what differentiates us from our competitors. It sure as heck doesn't take someone 30 days, or give up a full month's dues to prove it.
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Post by fishstyxx on Oct 12, 2016 13:40:18 GMT
So imagine a publicly traded company comes out and says that they're going to implement a new idea which will lengthen the sales process. The stock would plummet because it shows that the company has no idea about sales or the sales process. Companies are constantly looking for processes and procedures which will help them shorten the sales cycle. This is sales 101 and those who don't get it shouldn't have anything to do with the sales process. A longer sales cycle exposes the sale to all sorts of uncertainty which could jeopardize the sale. The whole program flies in the face of completing a sale.
The only benefactor in this poorly conceived idea in snap hq, which is simply looking at leveraging OPP, and should be illegal.
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Post by snaplongtimer on Nov 28, 2016 17:58:12 GMT
Rather than create a new topic, can I ask what you do as far as holiday time-frame free 7 day trials go? I absolutely hate this time of year for this type of thing for we are always playing the cat and mouse game with college students who do not want to spend a dime, but will use the gym everyday till they leave. We usually casually ask if they're in town for the holidays as we are pulling out the paperwork then slam the door on their trial when they say they are visiting. Been through this a million times it seems. I usually do not honor free trials at Christmas time through New Years. That generation is full of liars and it's up to us to sort through the trash. How do you feel and what do you do at this time of year?
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Post by patdaddy on Nov 29, 2016 13:32:59 GMT
We push them to just join for the short time so that they can easily restart when they are back for spring break or for the summer. 7-day trial are only good during staffed hours.
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Post by patdaddy on Nov 29, 2016 13:34:55 GMT
Interesting to see Corp moving to the AUTO-Convert for 30-day Trials. I think this will be a big help to weed out gym hoppers. Interested to see how they communicate this during the trial sign-up.
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